glenngk
De'anic (Non-Jana Clan)
Posts: 63 
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Post by glenngk on May 27, 2017 13:58:07 GMT
I have just read the official policy statement regarding the change of direction of the Janite Clan by its leader Arch Madrian Chandra Sophia. The Janite Clan now embraces the full theological position of the Feminine Essentualist wing of the independent Deanic movement. Ironically the male leadership of the Feminine Essentualist circle of Race Mochridhe ironically achieved its thealogical victory at the cost of his own as a "weak" and morally fragile male disempowerment. I can not describe how appalled I am with the new Janite submission to the old Madrian / Daughter ideology. I now "understand" that the Deanic scriptures no longer apply to such as myself and that people of my sex have only limited, lessor roles to play.
I have for quite some time been thinking that I am as a fish out of water within the De'anic movement and have thought greatly about disaffiliating myself from it. Well the time for this disaffilation is now. I am no longer regard myself as a member of the Deanic faith! The only question for me at this time is whether the Scriptures and the religious intellectual culture of the faith has any future role to play in my life or do I ignore it and go in a completely different direction.
Glenn King
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Post by david on May 29, 2017 16:23:48 GMT
Glenn,
Men fear matriarchy because they are afraid of being made to do all the menial tasks, and of being bullied by overbearing women.
A Madrian society is based on purity. Women gain the strength to govern by their practice of contemplative action, which works by making every act a reflection of a Divin Idea. Matriarchy is impossible without it, but it requires purity to make it work. Purity requires moral correctness, so if power is abused, the women who work it become impure, and it collapses. The position of men in a Madrian soceity will be governed by the need for moral correctness, and so will the applicationof of power.
If you still want to give up the Deanic faith, you will still make spirtual progress by meditation on symbolism. It is the best meditation there is.
May She be with you,
David.
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glenngk
De'anic (Non-Jana Clan)
Posts: 63
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Post by glenngk on May 29, 2017 20:04:48 GMT
David, I still believe in Dea based on my own understanding of her which is not yours. And as I have said I am no longer a member of the Deanic community and therefore in general I will to avoid discussing its doctrines. I will of course within my own private personal space of my blogs talk religious matters along with any other issues I wish. Though even there I will try not to talk directly regarding immediate Deanic issues.
However I will respond briefly to your comments regarding matriarchy which is a discussion which extends beyond the scope of Deanic thealogy. David I simply do not believe that the matriarchies as described within TCA and which you described have ever existed. There is no historical evidence for them. Furthermore I believe that human nature in constant and that during the whole civilized past the rich have oppressed the poor and that the elites have always been corrupted by power. In the real world such purity as you describe as hardly ever existed. It has been the exceptional. That is all that I have to say.
Glenn
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Post by david on May 30, 2017 17:59:16 GMT
Glenn, It is not true that there is no historical evidence for matriarchy. There is none that is acceptable to academics, but there is evidence that no reasonable person can deny.
There are the legends of Amazons, which are quite extensive in Classiacl mythology. There is also the fact that, before a certain period in history, all the images on altars were female. Arhaeologists argue that there is always a rod or pole constuting a phallic symbol to symbolise a male deity, but this is unreasonable for the following reasons;
A rod or pole does not resemble a sexual organ.
If they used sexual organs as religious images, they must have worshipped sex. If they did, they would not depict it in abstract forms, but in realistic ones.
They would not depict the male deity in an abstract form and the female deity as a human being.
Finally, in the book The Myth Of The Goddess, byt Anne Baring and Jules Cashford, they have an illustration of a female figure holding a rod in her hand. This cannot be a phallic symbol.
In conclusion, the integrity of academics in this matter cannot be trusted.
May She be with you,
David.
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Post by david on Jun 4, 2017 17:16:41 GMT
I ought to have meentioned, in my last post, that the legends about Amazons sre supported by finding of weapons in the graves of women by archaeologists.
May She be with you,
David.
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glenngk
De'anic (Non-Jana Clan)
Posts: 63
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Post by glenngk on Jun 7, 2017 22:00:32 GMT
Note I thought that I had posted this at least three days ago but well it evidently did not get posted.
David your desire to discuss this issue is understandable and normally I would be quite wiling to engage in a full conversation regarding the issues of history regarding the matter. However I am really sick to death of discussing of Deanism now. I need to put it away and drive it from my mind for a long while and get on with my existence. So I do not want to engage in any extensive conversation.
However I will say a few things. When I stated that there is no historical evidence for matriarchy I meant matriarchy as the Madrians and as You, yourself, understand it. I apologize for not making that clear. I am not prepared to say that no societies have ever existed which some might call matriarchies. Most of these, however, were probably matrilineal societies in which both women and men held a roughly equivalent levels of power in society but in differing spheres. The Hopi and Iroquois Indians are perhaps late examples of these kinds of societies. And please mark this when I stated that little evidence for matriarchies exist, I do not mean by this that all societies therefore default to patriarchies. The fact of the matter is most human societies have probably not been either classical patriarchies or matriarchies but in fact have been social compromises in which each sex maintains power over those areas of life of most concern to it.
That said I believe that there is virtually little evidence that the forms of matriarchy described in the pages of The Coming Age have ever existed. During the time lines described in the pages of TCA from about 50,000 years ago, the golden age of matriarchy according to TCA, to about 5,000 years ago when matriarchy was supposed in a state of decline there was no advanced material civilization of cities, literacy, books, scriptures, a developed system of castes and bonded people, the existence of a creedal monotheistic goddess worship, etc all of which are described within the pages of The Coming Age. The simple facts are that agriculture itself only started at the earliest at about 9,000 bce around the Fertile Crescent. Western Europeans did not develop agriculture until about 5000 bce. Thus the sophisticated matriarchies described within the pages of the TCA could not have existed.
Now regarding the Greek legends of the Amazons, I personally do not believe that they are historical. But even if one believes that they they did exist, neither the Greeks nor any other peoples never hinted that Amazon civilizations ever dominated Western Europe. There were no Western Amazons. What I do believe is that the Greeks probably did encounter small bands of horse warriors probably made up of elite women of the Scythian and other nomadic tribes. And I think that what they encountered surprised and horrified them because these women did not behave in accordance to the patriarchal norms of Greek society. Thus these encounters were inflated into whole societies of women without men, in which the women were the warriors and rulers of peoples.The existence of such imaginary societies would have been a nightmarish scenario for the patriarchal Greeks.
Glenn
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Post by david on Jun 9, 2017 17:45:14 GMT
Glenn, If the only image on an altar was female, this proves that women were looked to as the source of stability and security. They were not just matrilineal. They must have been able to fight better than men, otherwise, war would cause the men to take over. In war, those who do the fighting are the most important and most admired.
I've not ben into the history of Amazons, but I know there is a legend that they laid seige to Athens. Athens is a long way from the legendary Amazon capital of Themiskyra, so the Amazons must have had a large empire.
The name Themiskyra comes from the the verb tithemi, meaning to place. and kyra, meaning sole rule. The name Athens is also derived from tithemi, and so is the name Theseus, who was the legendary first king of Athens. That links Athens with Amazons.
The Madrian historical perspective is based on the principle that, in the Golden Age, we were more spiritual, and could influence matter by a direct application of the will. As the ages declined, we became more dependant on tools and technology, creating material "progress". All teaching was done by personal tuition, and all stories were memorised, so there was no need for books. These were the result of a decline in faculties. Cities were also the result of degeneration, since they isolate from nature, which is an important spiritual influence.
May She be with you,
David,
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glenngk
De'anic (Non-Jana Clan)
Posts: 63
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Post by glenngk on Jun 10, 2017 18:25:42 GMT
David as I stated previously I do not want to get into a long discussion of the issue of the Amazons. Furthermore if you have noticed for few months now discussion on this forum has almost dried up. I doubt if anyone on this forum is particularly interested in listening to any kind of dialogue on the subject by either you or myself. Therefore I do not want to go into any detailed response to your post. Suffice it to say yes I am aware that Athens does play a significant role is the Amazon legends. I also have to say that I reject totally any belief that the ancients had supernatural powers by which to manipulate matter. Atlantis was purely a legendary place not based on reality and the pyramids were not built by magical means. Furthermore again the earliest agricultural villages of ancient Europe were transported from Anatolia circa 6800 bce. Human beings in Europe prior to that would have been hunters and gatherers who generally would have lived in bands composed of only a few families normally of not normally more than 30 to 50 persons. They would have been nomadic and would not have lived in permanent villages. They could not have created either Rhennish or Amazon Empires. Such a thing would have made no sense. They would not have had queens or kings, no nobility nor any form of abominable caste system. Anthropologists however argue that they would have been remarkably egalitarian groups in which men and woman played equally the roles which suited their natural capacities and desires. They would have played the roles needed for the survival of the group. Actually I think that these hunting and gathering bands, sometimes referred to as foraging bands, is the form of human society in which human beings have lived through out almost all of its history of 200,000 years. These groups of a few families each would have been the result of the full direction of human evolution. They would have been the natural environment of humanity. A much better form of society than either patriarchy or matriarchy in which one half of the human race controls the other half.
Glenn
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Post by david on Jun 12, 2017 16:50:48 GMT
Glemm, you may not want this discussion to be perpetuated, but if you send posts, you must expect me to reply to them. Your posts are purporting to prove that my religion is not true.
The reason why there are no posts on this forum is the same reason as why all forums and groups stop having posts. In time, people have said all they want to say, and have nothinig more to post about.
If you want a break from this subject, you can wait a while before sendinig a reply. You don't need to worry about people forgetting what the subject is abou, because the messages remain on the message board, and you can quote them the remind people of what I said.
Now, to get back to the subject: I neve said that the pyramids were built by magic. The period when women created by a direct application of will is the Golden Age, some 50,000 years ago, long before the pyramids. The facts you cite do not undermine the Madrian historical perspective, but are consistent with it. I stated that cities are a degeneration. Early matriarchal societies were not sophisticated. The Amazons and their empires are also a product of a late period of the decline of the ages, when matriarchy was giving way to patriarchy and wars occurred between the two.
On the subject of Amazons, I've just found a text file that I've had left in my Documents folder and forgotten about:
The Graves of the Scythian Warrior-womenThe Graves of the Scythian Warrior-women
"One grave was of a young woman with weapons, a bow and some arrowheads, and
this little child lying on her arm. The two fingers of her right hand which
would have had heavy use from pulling a bow showed clear signs of wear and tear.
It was very moving."
This was how the German archaeologist Renate Rolle described her amazing finds
at Certomylik in the Ukraine to me. I had turned up out of the blue at the site
she was currently exploring, on the desolate rain-sodden steppe of Central
Ukraine. Once she got over the surprise of seeing me, she was generous with her
time and insights. She believed that these women, buried with weapons and
sometimes with armour, were ordinary women, with husbands and children, who
fought when they had to, to defend their families and animals from marauders.
Not separatists at all. And it is true that the dating of these graves, to the
Iron Age, means that Greek travellers could have seen these women warriors and
thought them 'Amazons'. Renate was the first archaeologist in modern times to
find and identify 'Amazons'.
Many other graves of women with weapons have been excavated in Ukraine and
Russia: below you can see a drawing of the grave-goods which Ukrainian
archaeologist, Elena Fialko found at Akimovka. Elena is also a pioneer of Amazon
discovery, but the political troubles and financial constraints in her country
have kept the news of her finds from us for too long. There are many fascinating
sites waiting to be excavated in the Ukraine, if cooperative ventures could be
mounted with the archaeologists there.
Notice the mixture of goods - earrings, a mirror, sword blades, arrow-heads and
beads.
More pioneering work has been done by Jeannine Davis-Kimball, director of the
Centre for the Study of Eurasian Nomads. Jeannine noted the unusual fact that
the women in the kurgan she excavated at Pokrovka on the Russian border with
Kazakstan, had been buried with a wider variety and larger quantity of artefacts
than the men, suggesting that they held unusually high status within the
community. Some women had weapons:one girl, who would only have been thirteen or
fourteen years old, had bowed leg bones, suggesting a life spent on horseback.
She had dozens of arrowheads in a quiver made of leather and a great boar's tusk
lay at her feet. In another woman's body a bent arrowhead was found, suggesting
that she had been killed in battle. Some argue that these weapons could have
been purely ceremonial, an indication perhaps of the high status of these
women's husbands. But Jeannine remains convinced that a proportion of these
Sarmatian women were true warriors.
May She be wit you,
David.
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glenngk
De'anic (Non-Jana Clan)
Posts: 63
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Post by glenngk on Jun 13, 2017 10:37:20 GMT
David you are of course correct, One can not just quit a discussion if one believes ones religion is under attack or at least it is very hard to do so. On the other hand it is hard for me to simply allow statements to go by which from my point of view have little relationship to historical reality or in fact distorts it. The reality, David, is that our discussion are very similar to those that might take place between those holding radically differing understandings and experiences of Christianity for example. While almost all Christians on a formal level might proclaim many ideas and symbols in common, the way these ideas are experienced and understood is practice is radically different. For example a Pentecostal, a Jehovah's Witness and a Conservative Roman Catholic while all formally Christians in reality, have religions which differ greatly and they will in general never agree.
I will tell you what I am going to do. In general I am not going to respond to the posts that you and others write here which I consider provocative from my own perspective. Actually this is how I have often done things because in general I know that we are simply not going to agree. I have another reason to follow this policy now. In disassociating from De'anism it should be implied that I should no longer attempt to be involved in the discussions by Deanists about what are the proper ideas of their own religion. Therefore if Madrians and Feminine Essentialists want to believe in Atlantis, Western Amazon civilizations, magical past technoloigies, and the ontological superiority of the female principle and the inferiority of the male principle, who am I do become involved in these discussions. It is not my religion.
However I will say this as the moderator of this forum I will likely create a board at some point of time is which I will attempt to discuss things from my own unique thealogical understanding which has certainly been deeply influenced / informed by the work of both Madrians and Aristasians. What might I call that understanding? Ma'atic Theaism? Well I do not know.
Glenn
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