Post by Admin on Jul 12, 2016 20:12:17 GMT
This dialogue made up of the writings of three posters, was composed within the De'anic Conversations egroup in June. It has been decided that we should transcribe it to this setting.
Administrator
Dear Glenn,
I recognize there have been various De'anic practices developed from time to time, however I don't believe these practices were ever remotely a tradition (at least in our time).
The distinguishing characteristics of De'anic practice include a feminine monotheist thealogy, based on the Filianic Scriptures, and a Hestia-based worship. Another element is the ancient idea of the seven streams. I think these elements have enduring value.
The earlier active communities included additional elements, which don't seem to me to be viable.
A more or less serious believe in a feminine empire - in one case removed in time (Rhennish), in the other case removed in space (Herthelan). We (outside these groups) have little access to how these conceptions were formed, though the classical legends of the Amazons are one element.
A Guenonian view of the cycle of the ages - that the world is in the late Kali Yuga and at the end of the Kali Yuga a new Satya Yuga will be established. Hence, the Madrian idea of the 'Coming Age' and the rationale for the 'Aristasian Experiment' in the Feminine Universe. I find Sri Yukteswar Giri's interpretation of a continuous cycle of the ages in the Holy Science (each descending and ascending cycle is half a precessional year - c. 13,000 years each) far more compelling that Guenon's interpretation of a discontinuous cycle lasting two and a half precessional years (c. 65,000 years)
My personal circumstances don't permit establishing a Hestia-based practice. I have an intellectual / emotional affiliation with feminine Monotheism, and consequently I am a Dea'nist in the broadest sense. I have a broad interest in diverse channeled materials of which I consider the Filianic scriptures to likely be one example. The Filianic scriptures has informed and continues to inform my reading of these texts and materials (including the Filianic soteriology).
In short, my interest in Dea'nism is personal and continuing. I believe we are all free to make our own way on the camino, and we are all guided by the Truth (as we learn to listen). I am not concerned whether Dea'nism or any another expression of the Truth is in current manifestation.
Should we cross-post this discussion to the new board?
Philemon.
Kathi, I agree with both you and Philimon on this issue of the early history of the De'anic / Filianic religion. I have read many perhaps most of the Aristasian sites of the 1990s and the British newspaper articles and certainly there is much there which to me is deeply problematic. How ever in reading that literature it seems to me that the De'anic religion was not even a major factor within the Aristasians of the time. Miss Martindale never even spoke about Filianism in her numerous appearances and interviews. Furthermore I see little or any of the attitudes of the 90's Aristasians that are reflected within the scriptures themselves,nor within the often brilliant and insightful posts of the Chapel of Our Mother God site. Note, when I say that much of the material is brilliant and insightful that does not main that I do not have significant disagreements with important aspects of it. Well how could I not have problems with some of it? According to the ideological ideas of the Daughters, Philemon and myself should not even have a place at the table.
I also agree with you regarding the fact that many religions have had terrible falls and yet they are still followed. While the disciplinary cult of Miss Martindale in the latter eighties and nineties in my view was troubling, it in no ways represents such a fall as did the crusades and the religious persecutions which certain other religions in power at differing times in history have unleashed on the world.
As far as the Scripture go, I believe that they are both revealed and inspired. I do not, however, believe that they are infallible. I believe that the authors of the Scriptures Sister Angela / Jeniffer and the others at the time they authored the scriptures were in a state of grace. I believe that Dea elevated the level of their spiritual intellects during their periods of authorship. Thus they were in the will of Dea. Thus even if one believes they were fallible human beings prone to error and even if they latter fell from grace they were at the time of their authorship of the Scripture; this takes nothing away for the beauty and grace of the Scriptures themselves. The fact is that within the history of Christianity, Islam, and other religions as well, the founders and primary interpreters have seldom been perfect and have often fallen short of their own teachings.
Note. Yes I agree that this dialogue should be transported to the forum. I have now developed a new board there called De'anic Controversies and Issues. I think that it is an appropriate place to discuss these general De'anic issues that are not exactly thealogy, nor about daily practise, nor about sacred seasons ,etc. Note until recently it has been the general idea that De'ani should never even mention the name of Aristasia, that that body has no relationship with De'anism's roots, I certainly do not believe that we should be shouting from the heavens about the connections we have with them. On the other hand history is history, facts are facts, most of us had our first experience with De'anism via Aristasia. I doubt that any of the new members here is not aware of this fact.
The idea has been that the problematic aspects of the Aristasian past has been the primary obstacle to the grow of a healthy De'anic movement. It might have something to do with it. However I suspect that there are a lot more factors which are much more important. And I do not think that pretending that we have no historical relationship to the Aristasians / the Daughters / the Chelouranyans in reality helps us at all. I really wanted to get that off my chest.
Glenn
Dear Philemon: I agree with what you said; some elements from the "removed" groups (for lack of a better term) haven't survived or haven't translated well. Although I've learned much about the beginnings of Filianism/Deanism that initially concerned me, I realized that it still appeals to me. (I note that other mainstream religions have also had bad aspects to their beginnings; however there's something appealing about them that continues to attract current believers despite this; each person has to make their own choices about the history and whether or not it will inform their choice to participate in it or not)
Much has been written about the cycles of time; I find the idea interesting but not particularly relevant personally.
I do have a home Hestia, but also celebrate a Filianic Liturgy on a regular basis. I'd love to see this cross-posted to the forum.
Kathi+
ReplyDelete
Administrator
Dear Glenn,
I recognize there have been various De'anic practices developed from time to time, however I don't believe these practices were ever remotely a tradition (at least in our time).
The distinguishing characteristics of De'anic practice include a feminine monotheist thealogy, based on the Filianic Scriptures, and a Hestia-based worship. Another element is the ancient idea of the seven streams. I think these elements have enduring value.
The earlier active communities included additional elements, which don't seem to me to be viable.
A more or less serious believe in a feminine empire - in one case removed in time (Rhennish), in the other case removed in space (Herthelan). We (outside these groups) have little access to how these conceptions were formed, though the classical legends of the Amazons are one element.
A Guenonian view of the cycle of the ages - that the world is in the late Kali Yuga and at the end of the Kali Yuga a new Satya Yuga will be established. Hence, the Madrian idea of the 'Coming Age' and the rationale for the 'Aristasian Experiment' in the Feminine Universe. I find Sri Yukteswar Giri's interpretation of a continuous cycle of the ages in the Holy Science (each descending and ascending cycle is half a precessional year - c. 13,000 years each) far more compelling that Guenon's interpretation of a discontinuous cycle lasting two and a half precessional years (c. 65,000 years)
My personal circumstances don't permit establishing a Hestia-based practice. I have an intellectual / emotional affiliation with feminine Monotheism, and consequently I am a Dea'nist in the broadest sense. I have a broad interest in diverse channeled materials of which I consider the Filianic scriptures to likely be one example. The Filianic scriptures has informed and continues to inform my reading of these texts and materials (including the Filianic soteriology).
In short, my interest in Dea'nism is personal and continuing. I believe we are all free to make our own way on the camino, and we are all guided by the Truth (as we learn to listen). I am not concerned whether Dea'nism or any another expression of the Truth is in current manifestation.
Should we cross-post this discussion to the new board?
Philemon.
Kathi, I agree with both you and Philimon on this issue of the early history of the De'anic / Filianic religion. I have read many perhaps most of the Aristasian sites of the 1990s and the British newspaper articles and certainly there is much there which to me is deeply problematic. How ever in reading that literature it seems to me that the De'anic religion was not even a major factor within the Aristasians of the time. Miss Martindale never even spoke about Filianism in her numerous appearances and interviews. Furthermore I see little or any of the attitudes of the 90's Aristasians that are reflected within the scriptures themselves,nor within the often brilliant and insightful posts of the Chapel of Our Mother God site. Note, when I say that much of the material is brilliant and insightful that does not main that I do not have significant disagreements with important aspects of it. Well how could I not have problems with some of it? According to the ideological ideas of the Daughters, Philemon and myself should not even have a place at the table.
I also agree with you regarding the fact that many religions have had terrible falls and yet they are still followed. While the disciplinary cult of Miss Martindale in the latter eighties and nineties in my view was troubling, it in no ways represents such a fall as did the crusades and the religious persecutions which certain other religions in power at differing times in history have unleashed on the world.
As far as the Scripture go, I believe that they are both revealed and inspired. I do not, however, believe that they are infallible. I believe that the authors of the Scriptures Sister Angela / Jeniffer and the others at the time they authored the scriptures were in a state of grace. I believe that Dea elevated the level of their spiritual intellects during their periods of authorship. Thus they were in the will of Dea. Thus even if one believes they were fallible human beings prone to error and even if they latter fell from grace they were at the time of their authorship of the Scripture; this takes nothing away for the beauty and grace of the Scriptures themselves. The fact is that within the history of Christianity, Islam, and other religions as well, the founders and primary interpreters have seldom been perfect and have often fallen short of their own teachings.
Note. Yes I agree that this dialogue should be transported to the forum. I have now developed a new board there called De'anic Controversies and Issues. I think that it is an appropriate place to discuss these general De'anic issues that are not exactly thealogy, nor about daily practise, nor about sacred seasons ,etc. Note until recently it has been the general idea that De'ani should never even mention the name of Aristasia, that that body has no relationship with De'anism's roots, I certainly do not believe that we should be shouting from the heavens about the connections we have with them. On the other hand history is history, facts are facts, most of us had our first experience with De'anism via Aristasia. I doubt that any of the new members here is not aware of this fact.
The idea has been that the problematic aspects of the Aristasian past has been the primary obstacle to the grow of a healthy De'anic movement. It might have something to do with it. However I suspect that there are a lot more factors which are much more important. And I do not think that pretending that we have no historical relationship to the Aristasians / the Daughters / the Chelouranyans in reality helps us at all. I really wanted to get that off my chest.
Glenn
Dear Philemon: I agree with what you said; some elements from the "removed" groups (for lack of a better term) haven't survived or haven't translated well. Although I've learned much about the beginnings of Filianism/Deanism that initially concerned me, I realized that it still appeals to me. (I note that other mainstream religions have also had bad aspects to their beginnings; however there's something appealing about them that continues to attract current believers despite this; each person has to make their own choices about the history and whether or not it will inform their choice to participate in it or not)
Much has been written about the cycles of time; I find the idea interesting but not particularly relevant personally.
I do have a home Hestia, but also celebrate a Filianic Liturgy on a regular basis. I'd love to see this cross-posted to the forum.
Kathi+
ReplyDelete