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Post by erinsian on Jan 7, 2017 19:02:19 GMT
So, I think I am safe in assuming that Lux Madriana were the foremothers of what later became Aristasia and then Chelouranya/Daughters of Shining Harmony after 'Operation Bridgehead'. Please correct me if I'm wrong, the timelines/history/splinter groups etc often confuse me. I'm pretty certain ArchMadria Pamela has tried to explain the history to me a couple of times but I have forgotten much of it.
Anyway, if you look at early Lux Madriana material, there is quite a lot of lesbian/sapphic symbolism. In some respects, it seems they could have been considered cultural lesbian separatists (although I'm aware men were also allowed to become members, just not hold priesthood). Now, Chelouranya and DoSH promote this idea of non sexual 'amity' marriages or strong friendships or something of the like between women in their intermorphic society, yet they insist they are heterosexual because they do not consider themselves 'of this world' and therefore do not acknowledge the male/female sexual dimorphism/gender binary of this world. I can understand that to some extent. The only reason I identify as a 'woman' is because I live in a world that classes me as a woman and because we label things for convenience. If you lived in a country where everyone had blonde hair and you'd never met an outlander, you wouldn't identify as blonde haired because you'd have nothing to compare yourself to.
However, I don't understand why they seem to hold contempt towards lesbians, given their origins. And, while they identify as heterosexual because of their blonde/brunette attraction, in this world, women who engage in romantic partnerships are considered lesbians/bisexual/sapphic etc. Yet, I have seen lesbians be called 'wolves' and 'beasts' by Chelouranyans, with butch lesbians in particular being made fun of. I will admit, I once found Chelouranya extremely appealing and a way for me to reclaim my femininity, but the lesbophobia I found (as well as other things) put me off, as a proud lesbian woman who has worked hard to get to a point where I can accept myself fully.
Is this because they tried to align themselves with traditionalists who were often homophobic, and so they denounced anything to do with lesbianism? I just find it really baffling. If anyone involved currently or formerly with Lux Madriana, Chelouranya, Aristasia etc can help me out here and explain the groups' views towards lesbians and the wider LGBT community, I'd greatly appreciate it.
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Post by Madria(priestess)sophiaruth on Jan 7, 2017 21:08:08 GMT
Hello Madria Erin, Correct: Lux Madriana, Romantica, Aristasia, Chelouranya/Daughters of Shining Harmony are all created by the same 2 people. One of which is an imaginative author and traditionalist. The other keen on psychology, age regression, corporal discipline and a heterosexual member of the Gay Liberation Front (which was then open to all genders and sexualities). [ I call these "Madrian 1 the publicity seeking, lesbian separatists"]. The above thread of Ekklesia Madriana (the Madrian Faith) was when it split into 2. Ekklesia Madriana had been open to all. Correct: If I am understanding David Kay correctly, men contributed towards Madrian Literature Circle handouts. Men also contributed articles about joining the Madrian Faith to The Coming Age magazines.Whole families and children were members. A Madrian marriage between a woman and man was performed. The only reference to gay people was in Issue 15 of The Coming Age magazine states "It is possible for a person to be married to someone of her own sex. It is even possible for a magical ritual to change someone's sex if that is necessary." It then goes into a fantasy story about Amazons as the justification. I will approach this in a separate post. At this time there was more to the double axe, it was later taken up by sapphics. So did Lux Madriana/Aristasia. The Madrian 1 group told women devotees to divorce and have nothing to do with their male relatives. It was damaging to a beautiful Faith. They had "crushes" i.e. non sexual romances between women. This is when they began to form a fantasy household, complete manner of life and justification for it. They published in approx 1981 Artemis: for women who love women - magazine of the Artemis Club, London en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_lesbian_periodicals The contempt towards lesbians especially butch women may be due to their traditionally defined femininity and masculinity roles, disdain of sexual relationships or male clothing on women and the wish to keep anything referring to male outside their created fantasy world. May Dea bless you. Blessed is She. (Sorella) Sister Sophia Ruth |
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Post by racemochridhe on Jan 8, 2017 17:43:09 GMT
Erin, Obviously, I have not been a member of any of those organizations, and will defer appropriately to Sister Ruth with respect to her knowledge of the Madrian circles with which she was involved. I would simply like to offer some observations from my fairly extensive reading in Aristasian literature. I think you are condensing some nuances in Chelouranyan thought. "Amity" in their terms is somewhat akin to Christian "agape"—a universal bond of love that unites all maids and is, itself, Platonic. It is not incompatible, however, with narrower and more intimate bonds of affection, including those involving physical intimacy. This question was raised recently at Shining World, and you be interested to read some of the responses there: daughtersofshiningharmony.com/shiningworld/groups/shining-tea-room/forum/topic/what-does-it-mean-to-be-innocent/Likewise, this older article from the Encyclopedia Aristasiana on "Connubial Love", recently shared with me by Philemon, provides valuable insight: drive.google.com/file/d/0BxNSeYUBjbtFTXhKMHVuUEg3U0k/view?usp=sharingThe idea that Aristasian thought is in some way celibate is quickly dispelled by reading the early discussions at the old Aphrodite Cocktail Bar, which were sometimes very focused on the philosophical cultivation of what we might term "lesbian eroticism" (and involved lots of risqué literary trysts and rather delightful up-to-date photos of women in their stockings). "S*x" was a dirty word even then, though, not because of an abhorrence of physical intimacy, but because of a belief that our modern culture's discourses of "s*xuality" were fundamentally masculine dominated, and had trampled the finer and more delicate (and properly feminine) erotic sensibility, which comined physical pleasure with the cultivation of what is now called "menamity" and sound spiritual principles. By about 2000, it seems that the specialized Aristasian terminology had become so accepted that nobody felt the need to explain it anymore, and the idea that Aristasia was in some way against "sex" could be easily taken as a false impression. It is true that blonde-brunette relationships were/are regarded as heterosexual, but that does not imply a rejection of others. Back somewhere in the Aphrodite Cocktail Bar (forgive me that I don't have the reference to hand) a young blonde expressed terrible concern about that fact that she was really only attracted to other blondes, and received assurances all around, including from fairly authoritative names in the community, that there was nothing wrong with that and that, in the Motherland, it was not at all unheard of for some blondes to prefer blondes and some brunettes to prefer brunettes, even if that was not the usual way of things. Chelouranyan-connected or -sympathetic Twitter accounts I follow now are often openly lesbian-identifying when addressing Tellurian issues. There is certainly a rejection of "butch" identity, which is seen a degenerate influence of modern feminism in causing women to try to conform themselves to masculine standards, and there is certainly transexclusivity resulting from the specific complaint than trans activism is "erasing lesbian identity", but I have not seen anything I would characterize as generally lesbophobic (apart, as I say, from specific criticism of "butch" identities). I hope that adds some perspective. You have clearly seen and heard some things from the Chelouranyans that I have not, however. I would be interested to hear more from you and from others on the board about this. |
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Post by david on Jan 8, 2017 18:27:16 GMT
Sister Ruth,
I have not read any article in The Coming Age with a man's name attached to it, but I have a Madrian calandar illustrated by a man. I met a married couple with their six month old daughter in Hebden Bridge. The wife of this couple became the head of the household in Burtonport.
When I went to Burtonport to find information about the community, I was told that the members left one at a time. If something like being told they had to divorce their husbands had happened, they would all have left at the same time. That makes me sceptical about this story.
May She be with you,
David.
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Post by Madria(priestess)sophiaruth on Jan 8, 2017 19:09:48 GMT
Hello Race,
Thank you for bringing the up to date information that you have about Aristasia/Chelouranya.
Hello David,
I have only looked through the first few Issues of The Coming Age Issue 9 Winter 1978 has an article: Discovering the Goddess by John Shimwell.
I am assuming that you mean Donna Rhiannon and Master Richard, was the daughter named Maia (?). I do wish to ask you to share your contacts with Lux Madriana on a separate post.
I am not sure whether the following date is correct:
Northern Earth Magazine
"In 1984, the group, now numbering 8, including three children and one man, moved to Burtonport in Co Donegal, Ireland; this community broke up within months."
https://www. facebook.com /NorthernEarth/posts/486010368124277
28 August 2013 at 02:57
"Madria Olga told me that some of the Madrians in the UK hurt a lot of people's feelings by shunning men and trying to make other women shun men, including their husbands or other male family members. Bishop Georgia, Jan 3, 2013" [Yahoo group.]
David, you are welcome to view my experiences living in Burtonport with any emotion that you wish.
It does not make my experiences any less valid.
It was a sexually chaste household evolving from Madrian into proto-Aristasian. (After the St. Brides School for adult women - that I had no prior knowledge about). I went expecting the household portrayed in The Book of Rhiannë : the definitive introduction to matriarchy and the feminine tradition.
The dress was also modest, apart from the maid's stockinged legs when being caned.
May Dea bless you. Blessed is She.
Sorella (Sister) Sophia Ruth
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Post by david on Jan 10, 2017 18:16:00 GMT
Hello Sister Ruth,
I'm afraid I can neither confirm nor deny the historical points you asked about. I don't know much about the history of Lux Madriana. I know it was about 1984 when teh community went to Burtonport, and I think their total numbers were eighteen. I was told that three members joined them later.
May She be with you,
David.
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Post by Madria(priestess)sophiaruth on Jan 10, 2017 21:59:50 GMT
Hello David,
The reason that I wondered if the date of the move to Burtonport was incorrect as 1984 is due to the publication date and address of The Book of Rhiannë as 1982 An Drochead Beo, Burtonport, County Donegal, Eire.
Here is the information I have about obtaining from the British Library:
Customer-Services@bl.uk
British Library
The Coming age presents the book of Rhiannë : the definitive introduction to matriarchy and the feminine tradition.
Contributor: Lux Madriana.
Subjects: Femininity (Psychology) ; Feminine principle ;
Dewey: 155.3/33
Publication Details: Burtonport An Drochead Beo, Burtonport, County Donegal, Eire : Lux Madriana, [1982]
Language: English
Identifier: ISBN £1.00 (pbk); BNB GB8311032; System number 011177780
Notes: Cover title.Text on inside covers.
Physical Description: 31p. : ill. ; 21cm.
Shelfmark(s): General Reference Collection X.529/52109
Holdings:
Shelfmark(s):
X.529/52109
May Dea bless you. Blessed is She
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Post by david on Jan 11, 2017 17:27:15 GMT
Hello sister Ruth,
My memory of the time is hazy, but, after thinking about it, I think it was in 1984 that Sister Angelina stopped writing to me, so the Book Of Rhiane must have been published earlier than that. It was published soon after they moved to Burtonport.
May She be with you,
David.
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Post by mariatenebre on Sept 4, 2023 12:46:02 GMT
Race Mochridhe said it best. While some Aristasians and some Filianists advocated more Puritanical and even sex negative and celibate ideas. Aristasians did promote lesbian romanticism and lesbianism and didn't think that lesbian women had to live a chaste life. They disliked the term sex seeing it as being associated with things of the post eclipse world and being a part of masculine dominated discourse. Something I always disagreed with them on as I think that sex in societies that allow it has always been dominated by the thoughts, fantasies and desires of men and women and in most cases what men desire in women sexually is what women wish to be and what men wish to be is what women desire sexually. Though this applies to heterosexual couples and their desires. Aristasia has always been especially for more Sapphically inclined women though not exclusively.
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